Curse

ac1inferno · Oct 28, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

*cough*
weponswapingduuur? You have 4 weaponsets available for use.

If you need the extra armour, switch to your shield set. If you need the extra energy, switch to the high energy for the casting interval and swap back.

Keep in mind using ashes also negate the actual effects of certain weapons, for example; 40/40 sets. The only types of skill bars which should be camping ashes is a skill bar which includes Channeled Strike or whatever item-enhanced skill.

Using this frees up a skill slot and further enhances your efficiency.

My argument would be that you wouldn't need to swap back and forth because the item spell gives you the benefit of both at the same time.

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar.

I understand that your way is more efficient for PvP, but this is PvE we're talking about.

Tyla · Oct 28, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

My argument would be that you wouldn't need to swap back and forth because the item spell gives you the benefit of both at the same time.

So basically because you're too lazy to hit F1-4 so it's effective to use? Ones laziness isn't exactly a contender for arguments.

Quote:

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar.

And what favours does MWV do for you when you can take this? You could save yourself a skill slot by doing what I've said, and that isn't something to ignore at all. Not to mention that you shouldn't be boned on energy in even a spirit spammer bar with both AP AND BoC.

Quote:

I understand that your way is more efficient for PvP, but this is PvE we're talking about.

Just because weaponswapping is efficient in PvP doesn't mean it's not in PvE. You can get away with not weaponswapping in PvE, but there's no reason not to and weaponswapping is only positive when it comes to player skill levels.

ac1inferno · Oct 28, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

So basically because you're too lazy to hit F1-4 so it's effective to use? Ones laziness isn't exactly a contender for arguments.

Again, I restate my argument. One at a time compared to both at a time. Has nothing to do with laziness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

And what favours does MWV do for you when you can take this? You could save yourself a skill slot by doing what I've said, and that isn't something to ignore at all. Not to mention that you shouldn't be boned on energy in even a spirit spammer bar with both AP AND BoC.

MwV was thrown in for lack of better skill. It never hurts to have more energy and armor. What would you have in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just because weaponswapping is efficient in PvP doesn't mean it's not in PvE. You can get away with not weaponswapping in PvE, but there's no reason not to and weaponswapping is only positive when it comes to player skill levels.

I'm not saying its not efficient in PvE, I'm just saying you don't have to be so hardcore about it.

Tyla · Oct 28, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Again, I restate my argument. One at a time compared to both at a time. Has nothing to do with laziness.

You don't need them both at the same time, though. In times when you need the extra energy, a simple weaponswitch will do the job. You don't always need the extra energy at all, and shield sets have more survivability; +60HP and +18 armour.

Quote:

MwV was thrown in for lack of better skill. It never hurts to have more energy and armor. What would you have in?

A PvE skill is always a good commodity. Sundering Weapon is okay, but it does something that's not accomplishable by other means. Vital Weapon, a maintainable, unstrippable, cheap and spammable life buff. Heck, even Shadowsong or Pain could fill the slot much better.

Quote:

I'm not saying its not efficient in PvE, I'm just saying you don't have to be so hardcore about it.

It's not being "hardcore". It's being efficient. There's no point coming onto a forum and not using what the maximum possibilities for efficiency, when it's a discussion about efficiency.

ac1inferno · Oct 28, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You don't need them both at the same time, though. In times when you need the extra energy, a simple weaponswitch will do the job. You don't always need the extra energy at all, and shield sets have more survivability; +60HP and +18 armour.

A PvE skill is always a good commodity. Sundering Weapon is okay, but it does something that's not accomplishable by other means. Vital Weapon, a maintainable, unstrippable, cheap and spammable life buff. Heck, even Shadowsong or Pain could fill the slot much better.

It's not being "hardcore". It's being efficient. There's no point coming onto a forum and not using what the maximum possibilities for efficiency, when it's a discussion about efficiency.

It's PvE so the +60 health and +18 armor is negligible. It is a big deal in PvP though.

It's true that you can use Sundering Weapon, Vital Weapon, Shadowsong, or Pain, but they just have no synergy to the build. MwV helps more by giving more energy so it's easier to spam.

I call it being hardcore when you put it as "maximum possibilities for efficiency" especially for PvE. Like you said before, you can get away with not weapon swapping, so why not? It makes it easier.

I would completely agree with you if this was a build for PvP, but since its for PvE, I would prefer something more easy to run instead of going out of the way to get "maximum possibilities of efficiency".

Super Igor · Oct 29, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

B-b-b-b-but so does Bull's on a Mel / Cripshot!

Nah, Bull's on a cripshot is a culmination of manlyness (if it has d-shot too that is).

Super Igor · Oct 29, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

*cough*
weponswapingduuur? You have 4 weaponsets available for use.

If you need the extra armour, switch to your shield set. If you need the extra energy, switch to the high energy for the casting interval and swap back.

Keep in mind using ashes also negate the actual effects of certain weapons, for example; 40/40 sets. The only types of skill bars which should be camping ashes is a skill bar which includes Channeled Strike or whatever item-enhanced skill.

Using this frees up a skill slot and further enhances your efficiency.

I know that im doing a wrong thing doubleposting, but, Tyla is right, gj Tyla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar.

Also true, good job inferno.

So the point of the story is that you are both VERY SAXAY, stop catfighting pl0x kthx.

P.S. to inferno, why do you need those ashes anyway? Isnt there a better skiel, idg. O___o

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

It's PvE so the +60 health and +18 armor is negligible. It is a big deal in PvP though.

So you're saying that throwing away survivability is bad when there's nothing that can compare to that defensive purpose, just because "it's PvE"? 40 armour equates to 50% damage taken from whatever shield you're using, and 20 is roughly 25%. That is a lot of damage, and 60 health is also alot to add on. Negligible isn't the word for this. Again, PvE is easy, but it doesn't stop things being efficient in negating damage.

Quote:

It's true that you can use Sundering Weapon, Vital Weapon, Shadowsong, or Pain, but they just have no synergy to the build. MwV helps more by giving more energy so it's easier to spam.

Wait, so swapping weaponsets doesn't give more energy so it's easier to spam? How the hell are you going to be boned on energy with Boon of Creation AND Assassins' Promise? How will 30 extra energy effect this too?

It doesn't offer synergy, it gives extra energy. You can say it synergises with anything that doesn't take advantage of a martial weapon if you want, but in essence it really doesn't. Too much synergy turns a skill bar into a gimmick, and a gimmick is known to be easily shut down. Either way, how is Sundering Weapon or Vital Weapon not worth it to bring?

Oh, and Shadowsong and Pain do synergise! Boon of Creation!!

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I call it being hardcore when you put it as "maximum possibilities for efficiency" especially for PvE. Like you said before, you can get away with not weapon swapping, so why not? It makes it easier.

This statement heavily contradicts itself. Not weaponswapping doesn't make it easier, it makes it harder. Oh, and if you don't want maximum efficiency, you're in the wrong place. If you don't want maximum efficiency, the thread will be labelled "pissabout build" or something of the sort.

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I would completely agree with you if this was a build for PvP, but since its for PvE, I would prefer something more easy to run instead of going out of the way to get "maximum possibilities of efficiency".

Wait, pressing F1-4 is hard? Practicing your player skill passively is good to do. I rarely don't weaponswap nowadays, and doing so I've become both more of an efficient player, and helped make the teams I play in more efficient, both PvE and PvP.

ac1inferno · Oct 29, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Well, you seem pretty adamant about it, but it all boils down to preference. It's my personal choice to have it easier. It's like having two options that both gets the job done, but one is easier. So why not pick the easier option?

All right, now you can call me lazy.

Tyla · Oct 29, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Well, you seem pretty adamant about it, but it all boils down to preference. It's my personal choice to have it easier. It's like having two options that both gets the job done, but one is easier. So why not pick the easier option?

All right, now you can call me lazy.

How exactly is it easier? There is no reason not to utilise weapon swapping at all, and even then it increases your overall player skill passively. Heck, when you get used to weaponswapping for the right skills or situations at the right times it's not a hassle at all.

ac1inferno · Oct 29, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Less work. It's more sit back and relax. Are we going to debate whats "work" and whats "relax"?

Moonlit Azure · Oct 29, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

It boils down to preference but if you want to be more effective then you'll save a skill slot and just switch weapons.

TheDarkshineKnight · Oct 29, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Oh, Tyla, Tyla, Tyla. We're talking PvE here. People would much rather have fun with their inferior builds than be as efficient and hence, useful, as possible. :P

Of course, I contribute to that group, but, that's on account that I refuse to grind to any significant degree. I still try to be as efficient as possible without any non-Sunspear PvE skills. >_>

Frozen Was Tara · Oct 29, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Off-topic catfigths ftl you know...

upier · Oct 29, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

There is no reason not to utilise weapon swapping at all, and even then it increases your overall player skill passively.

This is the key:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

It's like having two options that both gets the job done,

Is it bad?
Yes.
Does it matter?
No.

You know how high you need to jump in PvE.

BUT - the problem here is that the build was offered as a way of help. And in those cases - bad ideas shouldn't be included.

ac1inferno · Oct 29, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

BUT - the problem here is that the build was offered as a way of help. And in those cases - bad ideas shouldn't be included.

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea. More of a simpler alternative since you can get away with more in PvE.

But everybody has their own stubborn choices that are hard to change. We came into this topic to give the OP what we thought were the best options for him, not to convince each other to adopt our own. We both gave more than enough reasons for supporting our options to the OP, but in the end, it's up to him to decide which he wants.

Even with 500 more posts, I don't think this, as someone puts it, "cat fight" will end and we are going off topic so we should let it end. And also, people like Super Igor doesn't like it.

Super Igor · Oct 29, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

And also, people like Super Igor doesn't like it.

Im unique kthx.

upier · Oct 29, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea.

It is.
You are advertising the use of spirits outside of a fun build. And the spirits in question aren't Life nor Recovery.
That alone makes it sub-par.
And then - you are wasting your whole bar to achieve something that can be done by investing 9 into Protection and bringing Aegis and PS.
And that's BEFORE going into specific skills.

Now - if you find this to be fun, absolutely run it! Enjoy it! (*starts daydreaming of his spirits+PD build*

)
It's just not a build that would be worth it if you want to be at your best.

ac1inferno · Oct 29, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Which one would be a better elite for a flexible Ritualist bar?

I'm leaning towards Promise, but I want some other opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It is.
You are advertising the use of spirits outside of a fun build. And the spirits in question aren't Life nor Recovery.
That alone makes it sub-par.
And then - you are wasting your whole bar to achieve something that can be done by investing 9 into Protection and bringing Aegis and PS.
And that's BEFORE going into specific skills.

Now - if you find this to be fun, absolutely run it! Enjoy it! (*starts daydreaming of his spirits+PD build*

)
It's just not a build that would be worth it if you want to be at your best.

What's wrong with spirits in a build? Why do the spirits have to be Life or Recovery? Sounds like an argument for PvP so again I remind you, this is PvE.

Aegis is 50% block and can be removed. Displacement is 75%. PS is for one person. Shelter affects all. And also, shielding hands/soa would be needed also to take the job of union. But aside from all that, would you really recommend the OP to put 9 in prot and bring those skills? Why not just go and tell him to delete his rt and make a monk?

I'm not saying my build is the best, but it is an option that should be considered instead of being shot down immediately.

Super Igor · Oct 29, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It is.
You are advertising the use of spirits outside of a fun build. And the spirits in question aren't Life nor Recovery.

Wha? Tbh, the problem here is his use of useless ashes, but you are wrong about painful bond spirit spamming, it is vry powerful build, able to deal massive damage.